Pravda quotes a US soldier who apparently took part in ground engagements in Eastern Afghanistan :

“We were told there were no friendly forces,” said Guckenheimer, an assistant gunner with the 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum. “If there was anybody there, they were the enemy. We were told specifically that if there were women and children to kill them.”

If more mechanical and less evocative, this puts me in mind of the following quote from one of the soldiers who were present at what is being referred to as the ‘Incident at Nogun-Ri’ during the Korean War, which I talked about here a few months ago :

“There was a lieutenant screaming like a madman, fire on everything, kill ’em all,” recalls 7th Cavalry veteran Joe Jackman, “I didn’t know if they were soldiers or what. Kids, there was kids out there, it didn’t matter what it was, eight to 80, blind, crippled or crazy, they shot ’em all.”

Killing civilians : a long, noble and continuing tradition in America, as elsewhere, it would seem.
Edit : The Pravda piece is a mirror of an article from the Ithaca Journal, here.

Politics Chafe My Scrote

Join the conversation! 16 Comments

  1. i noticed that one of this guy’s parent went to the university of california at berkley. a haven for idiots in our country. it is hard for me to believe that the apple hasn’t fallen far from the tree in this case. i am going to do a search for this guys name at work to see if he is even in the military. before you credit this guys opinion.. perhaps you should have done some background checking yourself.

  2. Why would I want to do that? I am not a journalist. And evidence to the contrary, Pukester, I do have better things to do than fact-check an article in Pravda. (Although I will grant you that the ‘Ithaca Journal’ may not precisely be The Newspaper of Note.)
    It would seem to me that this Guckenheimer guy (memorable name) is reporting his experiences, not his opinion. There is a significant difference.
    There is also no lack of objective evidence with regards to Nogun-Ri.
    But I assume you’re aware of that… please realize that I’m not baiting you personally. I just have a comprehensive and overwhelming lack of respect for the vast majority of soldiers, American and otherwise, that I’ve ever met, here and elsewhere. Nothing personal. (I infer from things you’ve said here, though you’ve not declared it, that you are an American military person.)
    I’ve met a few good people who were in the military too, over the years. A few.

  3. i’ve spent 16 years of my life working with some of the bravest, smartest, and wonderful people i have ever met.. it is hard for me not to take it personal when you make a bullshit blanket statement that we have a long tradition of killing innocent people. as if we sit around and talk about the next innocent people killing party we are going to have. we do have the occasional idiot that pops up like the lieutenant that did the mai lai massacre.. but they are generally operating on their own.. with no orders from higher. it does not take away from the accomplishments that our military has made over the years like pulling europe’s butt from the fire, rescuing the balkans from a butcher, keeping the soviets out of the oilfields in the ME, the list goes on.. the way of life you enjoy right now was provided by my country.

  4. Matt Guckenheimer never served in the US military.
    see for yourself

  5. nope.. disregard that.. i found him on a classified server… and they have his first name spelled mathew.

  6. I thank you, we all thank you, even that pile of dead non-combatants (sorry, I meant the collateral damage) thanks you. Denizens of the garbage heap that this planet is rapidly becoming thanks to the rapaciousness of Americans and their halfwit imitators the planet over…we all thank you for our marvellous way of life.
    Isn’t it obvious to you that when an entirely new phrase like ‘collateral damage’ (as loathsome a military-spawned perversion of the language as ‘ethnic cleansing’) is necessary, that the situation that the phrase describes must of necessity happen with a relatively high degree of frequency?
    I mean, I understand what an intense blanket of constant propaganda the average member of any military must suffocate under, but isn’t it just common sense?
    And never mind Mai freaking Lai, my friend, let’s talk about running drugs to support contras in Nicaragua, let’s talk about tacit and explicit support for death squads in El Salvador, let’s talk about the bombing of a pharmaceutical factory in the Sudan, the result of which : “tens of thousands of people – many of them children – have suffered and died from malaria, tuberculosis, and other treatable diseases…” (Jonathan Belke, Boston Globe, Aug. 22, 1999), let’s talk about any number of filthy little wars in the last 30 years that America and its military has been involved in, nuts deep, overtly, covertly, or just through selling weapons to both sides.
    Perhaps you’re someone who actually believes that America does good in the world.
    That’s marvellous.
    It’s possible that among your peer group of brave, smart and wonderful people, all of whom I assume are trained, paid killers, you are a beacon of peace and hope for a better tomorrow.
    That’s just super.
    On preview: it doesn’t matter to me if this Gooberheimer guy is real or not, honestly. It would be a marvellous thing if he doesn’t exist, or if the story is a fake. But it certainly wouldn’t change my thinking about all the other marvellous things soldiers (American and otherwise, let me reiterate) do and have done in the past.
    Please feel free to take it here if you want to argue more about the veracity of the Ithaca Journal piece.
    I will note though, that the original Ithaca Journal article has pictures of the guy, for goodness sakes.

  7. i’m done. you are biased so it is pointless to debate with you about it. you want to see the worst in america and you will do so regardless of what i might say.
    btw.. the cia and the military are separate. the military doesn’t run drugs to support anybody. clinton bombed the factory above the objections of the generals in the military because he was wagging the dog. there are some people in america that want him tried for war crimes because of it.
    i’ll give you this.. we are not paid to be angels.. but i expect my soliers to have honor. i have no problem sending them to jail if they don’t and i have done so.
    i’ll close with this.. isn’t it nice that you have all the basics in life.. freedom, food, alcohol, safety, free speech.. all brought to you by the people you love to hate.. the military.. whether it is the US or UN or some other democratic country’s army.. protects your rights to life and liberty.. but there is a price to pay sometimes.. this isn’t utopia…

  8. I never claimed to be unbiased, Pukester.

  9. well at least you admit it. most canadian try to hide their jealousy of america.
    let the pukester help you take a swim in Lake You… i’ll do it with an analogy by comparing palestine and israel with america and canada..
    i copied this from one of my fav sites…
    While the fax enumerated a number of significant achievements by the Zionist state, it also compared them with Arab achievements — or to be precise, Arab failures. First, the fax underscored the progress made by Israel in achieving its present Gross National Product (GNP). Israel’s GNP exceeds $100 billion while the oil revenue of all the Arab countries combined is barely $113 billion. The average annual income of an Israeli is about 17 times higher than that of an Arab. The Arab’s average annual income is $1,000 while the Israeli average is $17,000. Twelve percent of Israelis are employed in agriculture and another 12 percent in business while the remaining 76 percent are employed in the industrial sector. The average spent on scientific research per year per person in Israel is $110. The Arab world, in contrast, spends a pathetic $2. Israel’s leading electronic industry manufactures several times more than all the Arab countries combined produce. Israel exports $7.2 billion worth of IT products annually and aims to push it up to $12 billion in a decade. As a proportion of its total population, Israel boasts the highest number of engineers and scientists in comparison to any other country.
    this clearly shows one of the reasons arabs hate israel.. israel is leaving them in the dust.. it is the exact reason other countries are jealous of america… we are leaving the rest of the world in the dust.. and it bothers people.. it bothers canadians so much they made a commercial extolling “the beaver is a noble animal”.. hoping in some way to cure their inferiority complex. by the way.. don’t take this personal.

  10. No problems. The ‘Canadians (or fill in country name here) as stricken with feelings of inferiority and thus jealous’ thing is a well-trodden path, and like many well-trodden paths, has a kernel of truth hidden deep within it.

  11. Coming in out of nowhere here. Pukester, you really know lots of canadians who are jealous of america? I’d be interested to know where you come up with that idea, besides some beer companies crap commercials.

  12. 1. i lived in seoul for two years and dated english teachers. some canadians. hung around alot of them too at the various drinking establishments of knicklebys, seoul pub, and geckos in itaewon. one canadian teacher in particular wouldn’t shut her mouth at all about america when i was around. very irritating.
    2. many canadians invest in our stock market. i happen to belong to a professional stock message board and alot of canadians come in there and get into it with americans over trivial shit. for some reason.. they tend to beat their chest alot and proclaim their love for canada when no body asked in the first place. very irritating.
    3. i certainly don’t mean to imply in any way that most canadians “hate us” or are jealous(like some people think the muslims do) it is the “vocal minority” in both of those areas. and i certainly run into alot of these people in my travels.

  13. Don’t base your sampling on Canucks you met in Seoul, Pukester. There are an uncomfortably large proportion of full-on freakazoids over here (present company excepted heh), Canadian and otherwise.

  14. Scumericans and kikes and sand nigz……………..oh my………………..canada sounds white to me

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